Censorship & Banning of Autistic Canadians jypsy (janet norman-bain) and Michelle Dawson by Aspergers Society of Ontario
On Saturday, October 30, 2004, jypsy (janet norman-bain), Aspie mother of four children (one autistic, one Asperger's, two neurotypical), and proprietor of the world-renowned website, Ooops...Wrong Planet! Syndrome, posted an announcement of the availability of autistic researcher Michelle Dawson's essay, Autism Society Canada's "Proactive Approach": Evidence for a Communication Disorder to the Yahoo! mailing list Aspergerson. The essay is a report of a number of interactions between Ms. Dawson and officials of the Autism Society of Canada, pertaining to ASC policies and governance. The announcement post consisted of a title, a link, and a brief quote.
According to its mission statement, the Aspergerson list, sponsored by the Aspergers Society of Ontario, "was created to serve as a meeting place for those affected by Asperger's Syndrome in the province of Ontario. All topics related to Asperger's Syndrome are open for discussion (examples - new research, programming, support, medication, navigating the social services and education systems, and adults with Asperger's)... Membership in the Aspergers Society of Ontario is not required in order to join this group." jypsy joined the Aspergerson list on Octobrer 2, 2002. Michelle Dawson joined the list on September 21, 2004, after becoming apprised of personally derogatory list postings.
On Monday, November 1, 2004, Margot Nelles, President and CEO of Aspergers Society of Ontario, emailed Ms. norman-bain to inform her that she had been banned from the Aspergerson list. Ms. Michelle Dawson then posted to the list an announcement of the availability of her latest essay, We Are Not Your Community: In Response to Autism Society Canada's Open Letter. Like jypsy's announcement, this post also consisted of a title, a link, and a brief quote. Within an hour, Ms. Dawson received an email from Ms. Nelles informing her that she, too, had been permanently banned from the mailing list.
The following is the exchange of correspondence between Margot Nelles and Michelle Dawson, pertaining to Ms. Nelles' censorship and public disparagement of Ms. Dawson. To read the correspondence between Margot Nelles and jypsy (janet norman-bain), click here.
On November 17, 2004, Aspergers Society of Ontario divested itself of the mailing list. The list continues independently, with a new moderator unaffiliated with the Society. The censorship policy has been rescinded, and the ban on Ms. norman-bain and Ms. Dawson has been lifted. Both have been welcomed to continue participating in discussions.
From: Michelle Dawson
To: [aspergerson]
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 1:10pm
Subject: [aspergerson] We Are Not Your Community
We Are Not Your Community
In Response to Autism Society Canada's Open Letter
by Michelle Dawson
excerpt: "This exemplifies ASC's determination to make autism a disease, and to have discrimination against autistics defined as the failure to eradicate the disease."
full text is here:
http://www.sentex.net/~nexus23/naa_asol.html
From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: Michelle Dawson
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004
Michelle;
I have made the difficult decision to restrict you from the Aspergers Ontario Listserve, as of today.
On at least two previous occasions, I have sent messages to the list asking members to refrain from derogatory remarks about individuals in the autism community and other autism-related organizations. In part your posts necessitated this request. Your post today, which provided the link to your response to the recent open letter from Autism Society Canada does not meet this standard.
There have also been numerous messages from members on the Aspergers Ontario listserve about this type of posting. They have asked that there be a refrain from negative and critical judgments about others in our community. They are of the opinion that such posts are not in the spirit of cooperation and collaboration that we want to foster in our community.
The Aspergers Society of Ontario is committed to working with other autism-related organizations and developing partnerships with them. Even though we may have differences of opinion as to how to support each other, I believe that we always need to remain respectful of others and endeavour to understand their points of view.
Finally, I would like to remind you of the purpose of the Aspergers Ontario Listserve: "Aspergers Ontario was created to serve as a meeting place for those affected by Asperger Syndrome in the province of Ontario. All topics related to Asperger Syndrome are open for discussion (examples - new research, programming, support, medication, navigating the social services and education systems, and adults with Asperger's)."
Margot Nelles
Listserve Moderator
President & CEO
Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: Michelle Dawson
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 2:47 PM
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
Ms Nelles:
What I have written is an accurate record of what has happened. There is a great deal of available documentation. If there is anything factually incorrect, I suggest this be brought to my attention, so I can correct whatever errors I have made. I have previously corrected errors in my work, and always appreciate constructive feedback.
The derogatory remarks which have been made have been about all autistics, including those your organization serves.
The negative and critical judgments which have been made have been about autistic people, including those your organization serves.
A spirit of co-operation and collaboration requires that all in a "community" are treated with respect. You are saying that autistic people, across the spectrum, are not included in this "community".
If we were, we would not have to write letters asking this "community" to include us, please, as equals. Nor would we have to ask to not be denigrated and misrepresented. It is not autistic people who call anyone a plague, or any of the long list of pejoratives we are routinely subject to. We have not made derogatory and intolerant characterizations of individuals, nor of entire groups.
We have been positive and respectful, in reporting accurately the actions and positions we find harmful, negative, and dangerous. We would like these actions and positions to become positive and constructive. We would happily report positive developments, but no such developments have occurred in the case of Autism Society Canada.
We spent many years attempting to engage in discussions to avert having to conduct our fight for rudimentary respect and dignity, and our fight for representation that does not harm us, at an official level. Also, we made many positive and constructive suggestions as to how we could help and contribute. We were disrespected, insulted, ignored. It was not ourselves who were unwilling to co-operate and collaborate. That is your assumption.
Your positions in these matters have been noted.
Sincerely,
Michelle Dawson
No Autistics Allowed, Canada
http://www.sentex.net/~nexus23/naa_02.html
From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: Michelle Dawson
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004
Michelle:
No one is suggesting that you do not have the right to write what you feel is a needed response to ASC's open letter and your experiences with them. What we are saying and have said many times over, is that the Aspergerson list was not created for that purpose. This has been clearly stated by both myself and other members of the list and with due respect for all involved, we must follow the rules set out from the beginning.
Margot Nelles
President & CEO
Aspergers Society of Ontario
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 16:52:56
From: G[...] M[...]
Subject: Re: [aspergerson] We Are Not Your Community
To: michelle dawson
If you behaved like a good little girl, you would have never been banned at all!! I looked forward to the day yuo were banend so I can go back to Aspergerson without you attacking me or patronizing me in any way.
La la la la-la-la-la-la- hey hey hey good bye!!
La la la la-la-la-la-la- hey hey hey good bye!!
Nice knowing you, Michelle
G[...]
From: Michelle Dawson
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 2:47 PM
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
Ms Nelles,
If what you say in your latest is true, why did you state that my work (which does not meet your standard) contains derogatory remarks, etc? This in addition to all the other statements you made about myself, my work, and my character?
If you don't want people active in trying to have autistics, across the spectrum, welcomed and respected in Canadian society on your list, then that should directly be stated.
Again, it wasn't myself, or jypsy, who made derogatory remarks, refused to collaborate/cooperate, failed to show respect or understanding, etc. But these are the excuses you used to censor and banish us.
A person on Aspergerson, who I believe is in your organization, has sent me a rude and taunting email, this to my Aspergerson email address. I don't mind, Ms Nelles; and I know you won't kick this person out. But I thought you were for civility, as we are.
Sincerely,
Michelle Dawson
No Autistics Allowed
http://www.sentex.net/~nexus23/naa_02.html
From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: Michelle Dawson
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 18:26:24
Michelle;
If you would like to let me know who on the Aspergerson list sent you rude and/or discourteous emails I will certainly address that. I do not support anyone being rude or inappropriate, no matter who they may be.
Insofar as your question regarding your work, I state that it does not meet the standard of the list as it is set out to be. Your work speaks out directly against an organization and individuals within that organization and we have stated that those types of postings are not what the list was intended for. I have not attacked your work, (or you or your character) only the posting of it on our list.
Margot Nelles
President & CEO
Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: Michelle Dawson
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
Ms Nelles,
My work is kicked off many lists, especially in Canada. Any autistic who raises issues of concern to ourselves, issues which affect the lives of all autistic Canadians, is likely in Canada to be censored. You did not kick my work off your list. You kicked jypsy off your list, and you kicked me off your list.
I had at that point posted, so far as I remember, four times or five times. Two or three of these posts were requests on my part for clarity about your rules. You did not answer these posts, regardless of your stated ideals of co-operation, understanding, respect, etc.
The next post was in response to derogatory remarks and other criticisms made about jypsy. Like myself, jypsy is in an organization. She is in more than one. These organizations have to do with autism and Asperger's. That is, she is one of the individuals in an organization that you say are off-limits for criticism. However, she was severely criticized several times with no intervention from the Moderator. I have to conclude that only individuals in one specific organization merit your vigilance and protection.
I responded to the criticisms, judgments, etc, of jypsy by stating that jypsy's work is positive, responsible, necessary, and courageous. That was my second-last post. My last post was the message about my work.
I have never been kicked off a list. jypsy has never been kicked off a list by anyone anywhere in the world, with one exception. That was Lenny Schafer, who kicked her off his FEAT list. This was because he disagreed with her. Mr Schafer reconsidered his action, and invited her back. So you've done something which no one in the world has ever done. jypsy, who is an AS Canadian who has an AS son and is renown and respected around the world for her extraordinary work, is not allowed on Canada's dedicated AS list, run by Canada's dedicated AS organization.
Ms Nelles, you characterized my work as derogatory, which it is not. You wrote that you agree that I make negative and critical judgments of people in the "community". If you read what I write, you will see that it is an organization which is making negative and critical judgments. I am reporting their actions. I am not making judgments; I'm reporting what has happened, and the consequences to ourselves.
You wrote that I am contrary to a spirit of collaboration and co-operation. The opposite is true. I and many others are working to be able to contribute and participate as equals. Some of my work reports that we have not been welcome. This is not for want of collaboration and co-operation on my part, or our part.
You wrote, in a letter in which I was kicked off your list, that you believe we must show respect and understanding. Unless you were just chatting, this is a comment on my character and how I have conducted myself.
The work of autistics, across the spectrum, is often dismissed on the grounds it is negative and derogatory, disrespectul and lacking in understanding. Autistics who speak out are often put down by these judgments, regardless of the actual content of our work. You used exactly these cliches in justifying your action in banning me from your group.
Your list, according to your description, deals with "All topics related to Asperger syndrome", including AS adults. Everything that has been posted by myself and jypsy fits into your description. ASC's actions are not limited in their consequences to autistics, and they have and will have an impact on services, education, and treatment. The article I recently posted includes information from recent research, as do many of my articles.
Your policy mystifies me. You could make it more clear by stating that one is not allowed to report the actions of Autism Society Canada on your list. Perhaps there are other organizations which you also consider off-limits for discussion, and you could list these also. That way, I would know that any article I write that names these organizations is not allowed.
I have forwarded a message sent to me from G[...] M[...], shortly after you banned me. I don't know if the fact that myself and jypsy were kicked out was posted on Aspergerson, so I don't know how Mr M[...] knew I was banned. The last I knew of Mr M[...], he was a paid employee of Asperger's Society of Ontario. I suggest you read over what I posted on Aspergerson to verify Mr M[...]'s claims about what I wrote there. I listed what I did post above. None of it had anything to do with Mr M[...], much less "attacking" and "patronizing" him.
Mr M[...]'s invented excuse for taunting me is a reflection of what happened here. You did not want us on our list and created reasons to kick us off. I have now shown that your stated reasons are insufficient for banning jypsy and me. We have followed your rules so far as we could decipher them. We have not insulted or disrespected anyone.
Sincerely,
Michelle Dawson
No Autistics Allowed, Canada
http://www.sentex.net/~nexus23/naa_02.html
From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: Michelle Dawson
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004
Michelle;
In response to what G[...] has written you, I did indeed do some investigating as I had an idea of who you were speaking about. As I had only emailed you privately and Jypsy privately, I really had no idea how G[...] found out. His only explanation was that he thinks that he received a forwarded message from Jypsy stating what had taken place and he was responding to that. He will be forwarding you a message today that indicates how sorry he is for his inappropriate and absolutely unacceptable email. I am sorry that he represented himself in such a manner as I certainly do not condone that type of thing and certainly not from an associate of our Society. No matter what you think we may stand for, that is not part of our picture.
Finally, as I wrote to Jypsy (she seems not to have forwarded that note on to you) she is welcome to post messages, as are you, but all notes will be monitored.
Margot
From: Michelle Dawson
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
Ms Nelles:
You wrote: "I did indeed do some investigating as I had an idea of who you were speaking about." Since Mr M[...] was and possibly still is your staff person, I would hope you have an idea of who he is. I cannot see how Mr M[...] would be uncertain as to how he knew we were banned. In his emails to jypsy and to me, he expressed gratitude to yourself for kicking us out. It seems that Mr M[...] has learned by your example about how to treat those whose views do not accord perfectly with his/your own.
While it took Mr M[...] very little time to insult and taunt me, he has not yet found the time to apologize.
I do not see that your behaviour is any more justified than his.
You ban people from your list, something you have failed in any way to justify, and then dishonestly say you haven't. Are you saying that people who are banned from a list, who cannot access and read it, are "welcome"? I looked very carefully down my short list of groups. I saw no trace of Aspergerson. Is this kind of flagrant dishonesty something you and your organization stand for?
It is also "part of your picture" to use many false and demeaning statements about myself and my work in order to justify kicking jypsy and me off your list. In the absence of yourself supplying sufficient reasons for this unprecendented (anywhere, any time) and extreme action, we are left to conclude that this is an act of pure and extreme intolerance on your part. We are left to conclude that this purely and extremely intolerant act reflects your and your organization's values and goals.
Sincerely,
Michelle Dawson
No Autistics Allowed, Canada
http://www.sentex.net/~nexus23/naa_02.html
From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: Aspergerson list
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004
You may have noticed the recent changes that have been made to our group list. We are posting this to explain these changes and why we feel that they are necessary.
Despite what we feel have been clear requests to refrain from angry postings that attack specific individuals or organizations, such items have continued to appear on our list. This is problematic, as the Aspergers Society has always operated as a non-partisan organization. Although we may have strong opinions regarding the work being done in our community, we have endeavored to share these with others in a respectful way.
As a group of individuals affected in some way by Asperger syndrome, we also have the opportunity to learn from others' experiences and perspectives. We all greatly value this. Such learning and understanding best occurs in an environment of understanding, respect and cooperation.
Our belief is that in order for us to meet our goals and be successful as an organization we must work within the community as a whole, not attacking the aspects of it that may not be to the liking of us individually, or of our members. We feel that working in this manner increases our chances of evoking positive change and dispelling the myths around autism and Asperger Syndrome that prevail in our society. As an organization we continually see systemic barriers that lead to the marginalization of individuals with Asperger Syndrome, which must be cooperatively addressed. We do believe that "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts."
The Aspergerson listserve was created with the intention of providing a place for people to connect and find support. It is a place for people to share success stories, information, resources and strategies. It is a place for people with Asperger Syndrome, their families and other concerned individuals to come together in a positive way and try to bring each other hope. It was never intended to be an arena for political debate, or a forum for publicly criticizing parents, professionals or other organizations in the community.
The steps we are taking now to better monitor the list should have been put in place from the beginning. All postings must now be approved by the moderator before going to the list. Though this may seem like censorship to some, we feel it is in the best interest of the list, its members and the Society as a whole. As well, the description of the group will change to reflect our policy and hopefully give a clear sense of what our list is all about to avoid any confusion for current and future members. This decision was not made lightly and after considerable discussion and feedback from members of the list.
Please remember that the Asperger Society is still a developing agency run entirely by volunteers. There has never been any core funding for the Society. There are no salaries. There is no office. We depend upon a handful of dedicated individuals to help us realize our vision. We hope that those involved with our Society will be supportive of us as we continue to grow and develop.
Sincerely
Margot Nelles
List Moderator
President & CEO
Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: Michelle Dawson
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 9:07 AM
Subject: FW: Michelle apology
Michelle;
Please see G[...]'s note to you below. He had considerable difficulty in sending it to you the other day (wrong address and then it was bounced back when I sent him the right one).
Thanks for your patience in waiting for this.
Margot Nelles
President & CEO
Aspergers Society of Ontario
-----Original Message-----
From: G[...] M[...]
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 5:40 PM
To: aspergers.society@sympatico.ca
Subject: Michelle apology
Michelle, I just want to apologize for my immaturity when I heard you got banned. It was not appropriate behaviour for the time so for that I am truly sorry for those remarks.
All the best
G[...]
From: Michelle Dawson
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: FW: Michelle apology
Ms Nelles,
Mr M[...] had only to click on my email address in the Aspergerson list (my last ever message is still there, apparently), as he did when he insulted me. Your explanation of what happened (no one else, including Mr M[...] or yourself has had any difficulty at all sending me anything anytime) lacks credibility, and this is what we have sadly come to expect from your organization.
I want to address some of the ways you continue to insult me, Ms Nelles, and disparage and misrepresent my work. My organization is not, it seems, an organization you believe is part of the "community", or anything you wish at any time to have anything to do with. You have made me and everyone else involved in No Autistics Allowed into non-persons. You are therefore free to attack and disrespect us, this after banishing us so we are not able to respond to these personal and unfounded attacks.
You wrote: "Despite what we feel have been clear requests to refrain from angry postings that attack specific individuals or organizations, such items have continued to appear on our list."
You can now explain to us all where there was anything resembling an "angry posting" by those of us you banished. While I was a member, I saw many angry postings from other members of your list, for example, attacking jypsy. I have with help recovered the four posts I did make on your list. Perhaps you can tell me which is angry, and which is an attack on specific individuals or organizations?
My work concerning ASC has always been (1.) an accurate record of this organization's actions, which have included "attacks" involving demeaning and dangerous characterizations of all autistics, including AS people; and (2.) a plea for this organization to present itself accurately; and (3.) a plea for this organization to hurt its "consumers" less than it does now; as well as (4.) pointing out that because of how ASC treats its consumers, it does not meet requirements for the federal funding it does receive--something ASC could rectify easily if it chose.
You wrote: "Although we may have strong opinions regarding the work being done in our community, we have endeavored to share these with others in a respectful way."
You are saying that I have been disrespectful, and in fact have not even attempted to be respectful. You are insulting me, and those who work with me, and those who have found my work respectful, Ms Nelles, and I request an apology from you. Many have read my work and found it respectful and useful, including the Supreme Court of Canada. In my application to intervene in Auton, the application accepted by the Court, I wrote:
23. I know of no association or group seeking to intervene in these proceedings who could bring the true perspective of autistic individuals;
24. While several groups and associations exist to promote the rights of autistic individuals, in my experience, they are usually dominated by parents and professionals, and very seldom have any input from autistic individuals, even when the autistics seek to participate in these organizations.
ASC of course is an Auton intervener. The Court did not find my characterization of ASC and other "groups and associations" claiming to represent autistics to be either false or disrespectul. You are saying the Court is wrong.
You wrote: "Such learning and understanding best occurs in an environment of understanding, respect and cooperation."
Now you can explain how my work in any way represents, on my part, an absence of understanding, respect, and cooperation. Show me, Ms Nelles, where I and jypsy and the many others you are judging are showing an absence of understanding, or where we are disrespectful, and where we fail to co-operate. It was yourself who refused to respond to us when we asked for clarity about the rules you generated in order to silence, disrespect, and banish us.
You wrote: "Our belief is that in order for us to meet our goals and be successful as an organization we must work within the community as a whole, not attacking the aspects of it that may not be to the liking of us individually, or of our members."
Ms Nelles, you are making false and demeaning characterizations of me and all those who support my work, and of all those who have experienced the consequences of "aspects" of what you call the "community as a whole" attacking us. This is not a discussion of personal preferences. This involves the law: the basic rights, the freedom and safety of real human beings who happen to be autistic or AS. You are saying we are being frivolously destructive. Your response is at the level of jeering in response to credible, evidence-based legal and ethical arguments. You have also kicked us out of whatever "community as a whole" you consider worth being a part of. You have nothing against yourself attacking us, without any evidence-based reason, and without allowing us to respond, because we are not to the liking of yourself and your organization. You can also tell us who speaks for your "community as a whole", and who this community consists of.
You wrote: "We feel that working in this manner increases our chances of evoking positive change and dispelling the myths around autism and Asperger Syndrome that prevail in our society."
Can you explain how you personally, or "we", meaning I assume your organization, has worked against damaging and dangerous views of autism/AS? I know the only people who have objected to such views expressed in legal cases, by autism organizations (in legal cases, on websites, in the media), by political people, and in the media, have been ourselves and our allies. We have fought against the exclusion and mistreatment of autistics in specific situations, where autistics were and are being hurt.
When we have provided positive views of autism, we have been pelted with abuse, often from the "community" you are fully supporting. Who do you believe is "evoking positive change" here? And where do you think the "myths", the entirely negative views of autism and AS came from?
Read ASC's press releases, read the parts of its website which remain standing, read the words of those who have educated themselves via ASC, read the websites of ASC's allies, read the legal positions that ASC supports. Then read what I've written, which is full of positive and accurate information, recearch- science- law- and ethics-based information, about autistics across the spectrum. You have decided that my views are wrong, unacceptable, frivolous, and in need not of consideration or inclusion, but of censorship and exile.
I will not comment on your claim that you are somehow doing something re the barriers enforcing the marginalization of AS people. What you are doing is making these barriers ever higher and stronger, by cooperating with those who build and guard those barriers. Also you have responded to those threatening the existence of these barriers--by attacking us personally, attacking, misrepresenting and denigrating ourselves, our lives, and our work, and throwing us out of your community.
Sincerely,
Michelle Dawson
No Autistics Allowed, Canada
http://www.sentex.net/~nexus23/naa_02.html
