neurodiversity.com | censorship of jypsy (janet norman-bain) by aspergers society of ontario

On Saturday, October 30, 2004, jypsy (janet norman-bain), Aspie mother of four children (one autistic, one Asperger's, two neurotypical), and proprietor of the world-renowned website, , posted an announcement of the availability of autistic researcher Michelle Dawson's essay, to the Yahoo! mailing list . The essay is a report of a number of interactions between Ms. Dawson and officials of the Autism Society of Canada, pertaining to ASC policies and governance. The announcement post consisted of a title, a link, and a brief quote.

According to its mission statement, the list, sponsored by the , "was created to serve as a meeting place for those affected by Asperger's Syndrome in the province of Ontario. All topics related to Asperger's Syndrome are open for discussion (examples - new research, programming, support, medication, navigating the social services and education systems, and adults with Asperger's)... Membership in the Aspergers Society of Ontario is not required in order to join this group." jypsy joined the Aspergerson list on Octobrer 2, 2002. Michelle Dawson joined the list on September 21, 2004, after becoming apprised of .

On Monday, November 1, 2004, Margot Nelles, President and CEO of Aspergers Society of Ontario, emailed Ms. norman-bain to inform her that she had been banned from the Aspergerson list. Ms. Michelle Dawson then posted to the list an announcement of the availability of her latest essay, . Like jypsy's announcement, this post also consisted of a title, a link, and a brief quote. Within an hour, Ms. Dawson received an email from Ms. Nelles informing her that she, too, had been permanently banned from the mailing list.

The following is the exchange of correspondence between Margot Nelles and jypsy (janet norman-bain), pertaining to Ms. Nelles' censorship and public disparagement of Ms. norman-bain. To read the correspondence between Margot Nelles and Michelle Dawson, click .

On November 17, 2004, Aspergers Society of Ontario divested itself of the mailing list. The list continues independently, with a new moderator unaffiliated with the Society. The censorship policy has been rescinded, and the ban on Ms. norman-bain and Ms. Dawson has been lifted. Both have been welcomed to continue participating in discussions.

From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:56 am
Subject: Autism Society Canada's "Proactive Approach"

Autism Society Canada's "Proactive Approach"
Evidence for a Communication Disorder
by Michelle Dawson

Excerpt:
"I have always suspected that the assumed communication deficit in autism is not entirely, or perhaps even primarily, located in autistic people."

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: Participation in the Aspergerson Group
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:08:18

I have made the difficult decision to restrict you from the Aspergers Ontario Listserve, as of today.

On at least two previous occasions, I have sent messages to the list asking members to refrain from derogatory remarks about individuals in the autism community and other autism-related organizations. In part your posts necessitated this request. Your post Saturday, which provided the link to Michelle Dawson's website and her most recent article on Autism Society Canada and their Executive Director, does not meet this standard.

You have also received numerous messages from members on the Aspergers Ontario listserve about your posts. They have asked you to refrain from negative and critical judgments about others in our community. They are of the opinion that such posts are not in the spirit of cooperation and collaboration that we want to foster in our community.

The Aspergers Society of Ontario is committed to working with other autism-related organizations and developing partnerships with them. Even though we may have differences of opinion as to how to support each other, I believe that we always need to remain respectful of others and endeavour to understand their points of view.

Finally, I would like to remind you of the purpose of the Aspergers Ontario Listserve: "Aspergers Ontario was created to serve as a meeting place for those affected by Asperger Syndrome in the province of Ontario. All topics related to Asperger Syndrome are open for discussion (examples - new research, programming, support, medication, navigating the social services and education systems, and adults with Asperger's)."

Margot Nelles
Listserve Moderator
President and CEO
Aspergers Society of Ontario

To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: Re: Participation in the Aspergerson Group

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Participation in the Aspergerson Group
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:30:47

If you choose to post a message it would have to be moderated through this email.

Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 16:48:19
From: G[...] M[...]
Subject: Re: FYI... jypsy & Michelle have been Banned from Aspergerson
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]

Finally!! I have waited for the day for these individuals to be banned. Joy to the world!!!

Let's all freely breathe a sigh of relief to our mederator, Margot Nelles, for doing this hard but neccesary task. Thanks, Margot! We all owe you a big thanks for what you have done for The Aspergers Society of Ontario as well as for Aspergerson Listserve.

Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:26:21
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario, Michelle Dawson
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Aspergerson

Finally, as I wrote to Jypsy (she seems not to have forwarded that note on to you) she is welcome to post messages, as are you, but all notes will be monitored.
Margot

Janet;
If you choose to post a message it would have to be moderated through this email.

You have banned me from the list and said that I may send *you* emails that you'll post if you see fit. I have no way however of knowing if they have been posted or reading any feedback or any other posts on the lists.

As moderator you had the choice of moderating every post I sent to the list but that is *not* the choice you made. You "made the difficult decision to restrict you from the Aspergers Ontario Listserve, as of today."

According to Yahoo "You have been banned from this group by the group moderator (Yahoo! ID banned: aspie_jypsy). You may not join the group aspergerson."

The spammer who wants to cure your acne is welcome, the spammer who wants to get you out of debt is welcome, they remain on your list. G[...] sends you his thanks......

I would appreciate if you would inform your list, truthfully, about the action you have taken and your reasoning behind it.

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Aspergerson
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:13:58 -0500

Please note that the parameters for the entire list have changed and all messages must go through this email before being posted to the group.

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:47:05 -0400
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Aspergerson

Please note that this has no bearing on me as you are talking about a list you have banned me from. What you do with it's parameters from here on in have no effect on me because I no longer belong to it. My ability to "post" on your list is not equal to the ability of your listmembers. My ability to read my post, should it be posted, is nill.

I would appreciate if you would inform your list, truthfully, about the action you have taken and your reasoning behind it.

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Aspergerson
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 16:50:19 -0500

It just dawned on me that you are absolutely correct. I am new at the technical aspects of the list and didn t realize that you would not be able to see the postings or responses. If you would like, I will take off the ban command to enable you to see and/or post if you choose. However, the moderated command will remain and all postings from members will still have to be approved.

Many of your postings have been quite useful and encouraging (to me anyway) and of course your web site is one of the resources that I do give out to parents and professionals as it is such an extensive listing of resources in the community.

Regardless of how you may perceive our group to be, there is an understanding of the issues that you and Michelle (and many others as well) are fighting to change, as we are fighting the same battle, just on a different field and we must remain non-partisan in our efforts. This is one of the reasons why we also do not post items from other organizations, unless they pertain to informational sessions, conferences etc.

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:19:19 -0400
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: Fwd: Unable to deliver your message

If you would honor my request to inform your list, truthfully, about the action you have taken and your reasoning behind it, you could at the same time let them know that only *you* can post and any emails they send to the list will be returned to them as this one of S[...]'s was. S[...] is probably wondering what's going on and anyone else trying to post is no doubt wondering the same thing.

Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:34:42 -0400
To: aspergers.society@sympatico.ca
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: irony

We here on PEI don't have a "real" Aspergers Society. Parents of Aspies first got together a couple of years ago, the meeting was initiated and facilitated by Marlene Breitenbach, Special Education Autism Consultant at the School Board and I was invited more as the resident adult Aspie than parent of one. It was a good meeting, The Aspergers_Society_of_PEI Yahoo list came out of it but not much more. Some of the Summerside parents got together a few times since. I run the list, our description is this (I didn't write it):

The Aspergers Society of Prince Edward Island is a group of people dedicated to helping people, including professionals, who seek information on Asperger's Syndrome to learn all they can, while providing province-wide support to people with Aspergers and those that care about them. If you are lucky enough to have Aspergers in your life, or wish to learn more, we welcome your participation. We are a non-judgmental group, everyone has a right to say what they think, but please, think about what you say!

Monday afternoon, the following was posted on The Aspergers_Society_of_PEI Yahoo list:

Just wanted to say I like these articles of information you're sending out. Thanks, and keep them coming.

I'm glad you appreciate them and though you appear to be from Ontario I'm afraid you'll have to stick to this list to read them - the Autism Ontario list refuses to post them and today the Aspergerson List (Aspergers Ontario) *banned* both Michelle Dawson and I for posting these articles. (Except for once about 8 years ago when Lenny Schafer flipped out and kicked me off the FEAT list and then invited me back on I've never been kicked off a list let alone banned. I was not put on moderated status, just banned)
-jypsy

I live in Ontario but I'm not FROM Ontario. I'm a member of the Ontario ASO but other then get a few newsletters I don't get much out of it really.

Beyond the obvious irony of the situation I can't help but think there's a lesson here. I don't know whether he's an Aspie or a parent (I do know he's married) but whatever his situation he is better "served" by what we are offering than what Ontario has to offer.

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: irony
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:28:43 -0500

I truly appreciate your input. This has been quite a learning experience for me personally and while I was taken aback at some of the notes sent to me, I also can appreciate the reasons behind them.

I m glad that your list in PEI is working for those across Canada (I'm sure there are others outside PEI that are members) and again, I appreciate your work in providing the amazing resources on your web. They have certainly helped a great many people find the support that they need.

I'm also sure that as we move along there will be others that are less than impressed with what we (the Society) do. Thinking that we will be able to please everyone that comes across our organization is rather unrealistic. We do our best to provide a service and when that falls short of what an individual is looking for, I m glad to know that they have a choice and can seek out the missing piece from the lists, web sites etc that you, Michelle and others provide.

Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 22:20:31 +0000
From: magswon
Subject: [aspergerson] Recent Changes and Reasons Why
To: aspergerson@yahoogroups.com

You may have noticed the recent changes that have been made to our group list. We are posting this to explain these changes and why we feel that they are necessary.

Despite what we feel have been clear requests to refrain from angry postings that attack specific individuals or organizations, such items have continued to appear on our list. This is problematic, as the Aspergers Society has always operated as a non-partisan organization. Although we may have strong opinions regarding the work being done in our community, we have endeavored to share these with others in a respectful way.

As a group of individuals affected in some way by Asperger syndrome, we also have the opportunity to learn from others' experiences and perspectives. We all greatly value this. Such learning and understanding best occurs in an environment of understanding, respect and cooperation.

Our belief is that in order for us to meet our goals and be successful as an organization we must work within the community as a whole, not attacking the aspects of it that may not be to the liking of us individually, or of our members. We feel that working in this manner increases our chances of evoking positive change and dispelling the myths around autism and Asperger Syndrome that prevail in our society. As an organization we continually see systemic barriers that lead to the marginalization of individuals with Asperger Syndrome, which must be cooperatively addressed. We do believe that "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts."

The Aspergerson listserve was created with the intention of providing a place for people to connect and find support. It is a place for people to share success stories, information, resources and strategies. It is a place for people with Asperger Syndrome, their families and other concerned individuals to come together in a positive way and try to bring each other hope. It was never intended to be an arena for political debate, or a forum for publicly criticizing parents, professionals or other organizations in the community.

The steps we are taking now to better monitor the list should have been put in place from the beginning. All postings must now be approved by the moderator before going to the list. Though this may seem like censorship to some, we feel it is in the best interest of the list, its members and the Society as a whole. As well, the description of the group will change to reflect our policy and hopefully give a clear sense of what our list is all about to avoid any confusion for current and future members. This decision was not made lightly and after considerable discussion and feedback from members of the list.

Please remember that the Asperger Society is still a developing agency run entirely by volunteers. There is no office. We depend upon a handful of dedicated individuals to help us realize our vision. We hope that those involved with our Society will be supportive of us as we continue to grow and develop.

Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:35:33 -0400
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: your note to the list

You may have noticed the recent changes that have been made to our group list. We are posting this to explain these changes and why we feel that they are necessary.

I wish you had mentioned that you had banned Michelle and I and explained your reasoning. I wish you had sent me a copy of this and I didn't need to depend on a listmember to forward it to me.

Despite what we feel have been clear requests to refrain from angry postings that attack specific individuals or organizations, such items have continued to appear on our list.

I have gone back through many, many, many posts and I cannot find an "angry" posting from me to aspergerson.

"Enough already! You make me very angry because I waste my precious time reading stuff that has no substance to whatever you are trying to inflict. How about having a son with Tourette's, Aspergers and psychosis!? No, I'm not going to be gentle or diplomatic. I think you should be told."

That person is "angry", that is an "angry posting", that was NOT me. But what of the people like S[...] who sit back and appreciate my postings? Just because a vocal couple object you assume the majority do and silence me? Must everyone be like the guy from Ontario on the PEI list who posts just to say 'thanks and keep them coming'?

I'm also not "attacking" individuals or organizations. ASC is surely being criticized and deservedly so. Derogatory terminology will be addressed wherever it comes from, whoever spouts it. The petitions I posted did not attack "individuals" they both addressed dangerous, sensationalist and false statements made by people. In the case of one I also posted a letter from one of the people named in the petition who was in agreement with the petition and agreed to refrain from ever using the terminology again.

The other problem would be your idea of "clear requests". You posted the following:

To: aspergerson@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [aspergerson] List Serve Etiquette

I hope everyone enjoyed their summer and those that have returned to school are off to a good start. As the current list moderator, I would like to make a few comments.

This list was started so that those with AS, their family members, or anyone else interested in AS could have a place to go to receive information on resources, new developments, and upcoming events as well as discuss supports and strategies for success. This list was not created as a political platform or as a place to attack professionals or other agencies working in the field of Autism Spectrum Disorders. The Asperger Society of Ontario and, I believe it's members, wants to form cooperative relationships with other agencies and professionals that have dedicated their time and energies to finding the best way to support Autism/AS. We endevour to create cooperative dialogue and change unhelpful attitudes and myths along the way.

I would ask that those who wish to criticize, or attack what organizations or professionals are doing, refrain from doing so, and that we treat others in our community respectfully. Those who do not or cannot respect the purpose and spirit of this list will be asked to leave.

Thanks
Margot Nelles

To: aspergerson@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [aspergerson] List Serve Etiquette
Thank you for your comments to the members. As a fairly new member and mother dealing with my sons diagnosis all the crap on the site was very discouraging. Again, thank you for taking control.
P[...]

To: aspergerson@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [aspergerson] List Serve Etiquette

At the risk of "disappearing" ....
1) Can I ask what messages you refer to? It's my impression that anything posted has been done so within the list guidelines.
2) I think it is most appropriate — particularly on THIS list - for the moderator to indicate exactly which message(s) were offensive so we can all know what to avoid. We can all guess and maybe even be right, but it's not fair to make us do that on our own.

To: aspergerson@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [aspergerson] Re: List Serve Etiquette
So is it okay to call what other people are dealing with "crap"?
Michelle (totally bewildered)

To: aspergerson@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [aspergerson] List Serve Etiquette
Also at the risk of "disappearing".......
1) ditto S[...] (especially on point 2 - If S[...]'s lost, imagine how the aspies here are coping with this message)
2) Can I ask P[...] to also clarify what "crap" she's referring to
-jypsy

Re: List Serve Etiquette
The "crap" I refered to is mostly the usless spam messages that we keep receiving. I also do not agree with the political stuff regarding agencies that may be able to help "other" families. I do not think that I should be scared away from a society or agency because of someone else's expereince. I do appreciate the messages offering help and support but I get really confused regarding some of the very bitter messages. Please do not take offence regarding my post - as I stated I am new to this and only giving my opinion of how I interupt some of the messages.
P[...]

Good Morning P[...],
Thank you for your message. I needed to know someone else felt the same way about some of the dialogue here. I also know how tough it is for so many out there as it has been for my son and us.
Lache pas, bebe as they say in Quebec or Baby, never give up!
A[...]

At 08:18 AM 9/21/2004 -0400, T[...] wrote:
Re: List Serve Etiquette
The "crap" I refered to is mostly the usless spam messages that we keep receiving.
If you're referring to things like: "Unique extracts of herbs, distinctly solve the problems of severe and mild acne" you'll likely keep on getting it -- "roger_herbs" is still on the list. He follows in the footsteps of other spammers on this list. There are simple solutions to the problem.
-jypsy

BUT *you* never replied. S[...] and I both asked what messages you were referring to and got NO reply. How can you call that "clear requests"? When others said their problem was with Spam and I said there were simple solutions, you wrote to ask me what they were. I spelled them out for you & you thanked me. You didn't ever answer my questions though, you very rarely ever do (and despite pointing it out to you, you still don't: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 "Is there a reason you are engaging in dialogue with B[...], S[...], L[...], but not me? I have put forth my ideas to you but "discussion" is a 2 way street. -jypsy").

This is problematic, as the Aspergers Society has always operated as a non-partisan organization. Although we may have strong opinions regarding the work being done in our community, we have endeavored to share these with others in a respectful way.

maintain the status quo, never question authority etc..... Don't criticize lest it be called "attacking" and you be labeled "angry" (especially if your calm logic provokes anger in others...)

We feel that working in this manner increases our chances of evoking positive change and dispelling the myths around autism and Asperger Syndrome that prevail in our society.

And how does silencing us fit into those plans? Do we not fit the model you want to project? An autistic *has* gone to The Supreme Court. This Aspie has set a president in PEI's Disability Support Program that made computers eligible for funding. Alex finished 27th out of 443 in the PEI half marathon. Given the chance you'de be surprised what we can do. Given the chance.....

As an organization we continually see systemic barriers that lead to the marginalization of individuals with Asperger Syndrome, which must be cooperatively addressed.

How are you cooperatively addressing this recent issue? Although Michelle is autistic, I'm an Aspie and if I haven't just been marginalized by your organization's systemic barrier then I'd like to know how you'de define it.

We do believe that "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts."

The Aspergerson listserve was created with the intention of providing a place for people to connect and find support.

"Support" is not in the group's description. The list's description makes it look *far* more like an "information sharing" group than a "support group". If it was created with that intention why was that not stated in it's description? (I would draw your attention again to the description of the Aspergers Society of PEI description at , "support" is in there)

It is a place for people to share success stories, information, resources and strategies.

"All topics related to Asperger's Syndrome are open for discussion (examples - new research, programming, support, medication, navigating the social services and education systems, and adults with Asperger's)."

It is a place for people with Asperger Syndrome, their families and other concerned individuals.

"Individuals with or without a diagnosis, parents, family members, professionals, and educators are invited to join"

to come together in a positive way

and try to bring each other hope.

"try to bring each other hope"??!! That doesn't sound very positive, sounds a little desperate to me. That's sad.

It was never intended to be an arena for political debate, or a forum for publicly criticizing parents, professionals or other organizations in the community.

The steps we are taking now to better monitor the list should have been put in place from the beginning.

As should a proper description for the list, especially if you are going to ban people without moderating them or without truly giving "clear requests".

All postings must now be approved by the moderator before going to the list. Though this may seem like censorship to some, we feel it is in the best interest of the list, its members and the Society as a whole.

And you banned Michelle and I from the list. You are not treating your list members with respect by making them all go through you. You seem to be taking out your problems with Michelle & I on everyone there. I don't see how you can possibly think this kind of behaviour is in the best interest of your list and the Society as a whole.

As well, the description of the group will change to reflect our policy and hopefully give a clear sense of what our list is all about to avoid any confusion for current and future members. This decision was not made lightly and after considerable discussion and feedback from members of the list.

what considerable discussion and feedback from which select members of the list? The feedback I'm getting (aside from G[...]'s) is that listmembers find this whole situation quite "sureal".

Please remember that the Asperger Society is still a developing agency run entirely by volunteers. There has never been any core funding for the Society. There are no salaries. There is no office. We depend upon a handful of dedicated individuals to help us realize our vision. We hope that those involved with our Society will be supportive of us as we continue to grow and develop.

Please remember that no one will ever hold the opinions of list members on a Yahoo list "sponsored by the Aspergers Society of Ontario" where "Membership in the ASO is not required for joining this group" to be the opinions of the Aspergers Society of Ontario. You are not endorsing us by allowing us to post (just as you are not endorsing http://www.fastacnerelief.com though you allowed their acne treatment post and have their link in your link section or the debt service post http://grealus.com/adeh1 you allowed) but you are censoring us when you ban us from the list and say we were given "clear requests".

I could do amazing things with "a handful of dedicated individuals" and the sponsors you have but it's just me and the costs come out of my pocket. My website does not censor the view I don't like - perhaps that's part of what makes it valuable to you. My site now has 413 different pages..... imagine how few it would have if I started taking down all the pages I don't agree with - my aba page, my chelation page, etc etc. I believe in choice and making educated decisions about those choices. One can't make those educated decisions without all the facts though. The comment was made (by P[...]) "I do not think that I should be scared away from a society or agency because of someone else's expereince." but the same can be said if someone were to praise an organization - "I don't think I should be convinced to trust a society or agency because of someone else's experience." We're adults, we need to make our own decisions and judgement calls based on all the info we can get our hands on. If P[...] is so easily swayed by the opinions of others that she would be scared away from something by someone else's experience *that problem* is hers, not other list members. I don't see it as the moderators job to protect people who can't think for themselves.

I am utterly amazed at the lengths you have gone to to silence Michelle's work. Perhaps if you had taken the time to reply to my questions on the list we would never be here now.

I just thought it should be known that even when I don't reply, there are times I go out of my way to look into things for folks on the Aspergerson list. I checked out with J[...] (and his girlfriend T[...] and through him his room mates and RCC college friends) both the question of karaoke and tutors that was raised on the list. J[...]'s replies (basically "sorry, can't help") were on MSN chat and I can't locate them at the moment to show you.

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 16:44:41 -0300
To: J[...]
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: Fwd: [aspergerson] tutors

J[...] (and T[...]...)
Do anything for you or anyone you know? The kid is an Aspie....
Hi
Does anyone have any idea where to find tutors? I am still looking for someone to help my daughter with all those organizational things that get in her way at school - like taking notes, making an outline, keeping an agenda etc.
But all I can find are people who teach academic subjects - which we don't need.
I'm also trying to find people who can work one to one with her on her topics of interest. At her age, 13, I realize she no longer wants to be in Camps and group activities, she just wants help to pursure her interests and she knows exactly what her interests are and where she wants to go with them-
computer programmng (visual basic, java, html), computer animation (Flash), web design (dreamweaver), video production and computer music. There just aren't any classes I can find for her age at the level she wants to learn so I am looking for individuals whp can teach to her interests, at her pace, and with respect to her learning problems.
The only place that is right for her is Real Programming 4 Kids but they are unvelievably expensive (but worth it if you can afford it).
I have no idea if such people exist or where I could find them
If I could find a student with the computer skills, I'm sure I could train them to work with her- but, perhaps, a students with those particular interests and skills might just get along her fine!
(we are looking in the Toronto area)
Thanks
B[...]

Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 09:53:56 -0400
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Unable to deliver your message

Hi Janet;
Yes I know that others wanting to post (although there have been no others yet) will wonder what is going on.

Unless others are emailing you to ask why their emails are bouncing, you have NO idea who may be trying to post to the list. They will get the following (as S[...] did):

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:38:40 +0000
From: Yahoo! Groups
Subject: Unable to deliver your message
To: s[...]

We are unable to deliver the message from s[...] to aspergerson@yahoogroups.com.
Your message was not delivered because it was sent to an announcement-only group, where only the moderator may post.
A copy of your original message is attached. -snip-

You failed to tell listmembers in your post to them that they must send all posts to *your* address (aspergers.society@sympatico.ca) because only you can post to your list. The only reason you got S[...]'s email was because it was addresses to both you and the list:

Subject: final words on my own behalf
To: aspergerson@yahoogroups.com
Cc: aspergers.society@sympatico.ca

I can't help but feel a little bad that your actions taken because of your intolerance and disrespect for me and Michelle is affecting the seventy-some people on your list. I believe they are not the actions you really want to have taken. I think you want to have your list set up so you can moderate all posts, not so that you are the only one allowed to post. If it were set up that way your listmembers would post as usual but every post would come to you and require you to "approve" or "reject" them. The header on the email you would receive would look like this (an example from the autism canada list where I moderate new members until I'm sure they are not posting spam):

Hello,
A message has been sent to the autism_canada group from c[...]
The message summary:
FROM: c[...]
DATE: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:35:31 -0000
SUBJECT: Nutrition and Autism Toronto October Lecture
Arlene Mosher of Integrated Nutrition Solutions will talk on starting GFCF and SCD Diets. Picky eaters, Supplementation etc. on October 8, 2004 at The Best Western Hotel, Dixie Road Mississaugua.
For further information: Ramin 416 531 5616
C[...] F[...]

A complete copy of this message has been attached for your convenience.
This message requires your approval for one of the following reasons:
* Your group is set to moderate all messages from this user, OR
* Your group is set to moderate messages from all users
To approve or reject this messages using the web, please visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/autism_canada/pending?view=1&msg=8

To approve this message using email, reply to this message. You do not need to attach the original message, just reply and send.
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As much as I am quite thoroughly disgusted with your actions, my heart and my work is in the best interest of the autistic population. I don't believe your actions represent the views of the majority of the list and even if they did, my heart and work remains focused in the same place. Therefore, in the interest of the autistic (AS) population represented by your list, the members who are on the spectrum and the kids whose parents may need it and now find they cannot access it, I am offering to try to help you set the list up the way (I feel) you really want it set up.

Obviously I'm not going to take all that time here to give you the step by step directions if you're not interested, but if you are, just ask.

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Unable to deliver your message
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 15:25:17 -0500

Thank you for your offer. I thought I had set it up in that manner. For instance, I made a fwd post a few minutes ago from a few members that emailed me. When I posted to the site, I received a message such as the one you described stating that I had a message in need of approval. I m not sure what I am doing incorrectly. I have set the commands to notify me when a message is posted and I can t for the life of me find the place where I can modify the parameters so that anyone can post to the group and have the notification sent on to me. Any help in this area again would be appreciated.

Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 16:53:40 -0400
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Unable to deliver your message

in the column on the left, at the bottom, you should have "management" (just above "owner, moderater & online" with stars etc beside them). Click on "Management"

Once there, go down to where it says "Posting and Archives [ Edit ]" and click on "Edit"

Once there, you can make your choices.
Under "Who can post" - Choose "Members"
Under "Reply-to" - Choose "All Members"
Under "Moderation" - Choose "Moderated"
Under "Attachments" - Choose "Remove" (this way no one can spread viruses through your list)
Under "Archive Options" " Access" - Choose "Members"

on the "Management" Page, under "Group Settings", click on "Description and Appearance"

Once there, replace the old description in the description box with your new one. (Text or HTML, 2000 characters max)

If you want to change HOW members can join (Open (anyone can join), Restricted (you approve all requests for membership), Closed (only invited members can join)) then, on the "Management" Page, under "Group Settings", click on "Membership"

Once there go to "Membership Type and Welcome Message [ Edit ]" and click on "Edit"

Once there you can choose Membership Type, Email Address Display & Welcome Message.

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Unable to deliver your message
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 16:06:07 -0500

Thanks so much Janet. I think I have it right now. I have also sent the group a note explaining the difficulties and how to reach me directly if they are still having problems.

From: magswon aspergers.society@sympatico.ca
Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 4:04 pm
Subject: Technical settings worked out

It was brought to my attention that I had set the settings of the group incorrectly, therefore members who wanted to post where having their messages bounced back to them. My apologies for that. I have changed the settings (thank you Jypsy for your help in that) and hopefully all will be able to now post. If anyone is still having difficulties, please feel free to contact me directly at aspergers.society@sympatico.ca.

Censorship & Banning of Autistic Canadians jypsy (janet norman-bain) and Michelle Dawson by Aspergers Society of Ontario (jypsy Correspondence)

From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:56 am
Subject: Autism Society Canada's "Proactive Approach"

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: Participation in the Aspergerson Group
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:08:18

To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: Re: Participation in the Aspergerson Group

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Participation in the Aspergerson Group
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:30:47

Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 16:48:19
From: G[...] M[...]
Subject: Re: FYI... jypsy & Michelle have been Banned from Aspergerson
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]

Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:26:21
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario, Michelle Dawson
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Aspergerson

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Aspergerson
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:13:58 -0500

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:47:05 -0400
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Aspergerson

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Aspergerson
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 16:50:19 -0500

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:19:19 -0400
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: Fwd: Unable to deliver your message

Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:34:42 -0400
To: aspergers.society@sympatico.ca
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: irony

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: irony
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:28:43 -0500

Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 22:20:31 +0000
From: magswon
Subject: [aspergerson] Recent Changes and Reasons Why
To: aspergerson@yahoogroups.com

Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:35:33 -0400
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: your note to the list

Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 09:53:56 -0400
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Unable to deliver your message

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Unable to deliver your message
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 15:25:17 -0500

Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 16:53:40 -0400
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Unable to deliver your message

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Unable to deliver your message
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 16:06:07 -0500

From: magswon aspergers.society@sympatico.ca
Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 4:04 pm
Subject: Technical settings worked out

Censorship & Banning of Michelle Dawson

Censorship & Banning of Autistic Canadians jypsy (janet norman-bain) and Michelle Dawson by Aspergers Society of Ontario (jypsy Correspondence)

From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:56 am Subject: Autism Society Canada's "Proactive Approach"

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] Subject: Participation in the Aspergerson Group Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:08:18

To: Aspergers Society of Ontario From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] Subject: Re: Participation in the Aspergerson Group

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] Subject: RE: Participation in the Aspergerson Group Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:30:47

Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 16:48:19 From: G[...] M[...] Subject: Re: FYI... jypsy & Michelle have been Banned from Aspergerson To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]

Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:26:21 To: Aspergers Society of Ontario, Michelle Dawson From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] Subject: RE: Aspergerson

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] Subject: RE: Aspergerson Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:13:58 -0500

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:47:05 -0400 To: Aspergers Society of Ontario From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] Subject: RE: Aspergerson

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] Subject: RE: Aspergerson Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 16:50:19 -0500

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:19:19 -0400 To: Aspergers Society of Ontario From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] Subject: Fwd: Unable to deliver your message

Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:34:42 -0400 To: aspergers.society@sympatico.ca From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] Subject: irony

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] Subject: RE: irony Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:28:43 -0500

Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 22:20:31 +0000 From: magswon Subject: [aspergerson] Recent Changes and Reasons Why To: aspergerson@yahoogroups.com

Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:35:33 -0400 To: Aspergers Society of Ontario From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] Subject: your note to the list

Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 09:53:56 -0400 To: Aspergers Society of Ontario From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] Subject: RE: Unable to deliver your message

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] Subject: RE: Unable to deliver your message Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 15:25:17 -0500

Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 16:53:40 -0400 To: Aspergers Society of Ontario From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] Subject: RE: Unable to deliver your message

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ] Subject: RE: Unable to deliver your message Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 16:06:07 -0500

From: magswon aspergers.society@sympatico.ca Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 4:04 pm Subject: Technical settings worked out

Censorship & Banning of Michelle Dawson

From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:56 am
Subject: Autism Society Canada's "Proactive Approach"

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: Participation in the Aspergerson Group
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:08:18

To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: Re: Participation in the Aspergerson Group

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Participation in the Aspergerson Group
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:30:47

Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 16:48:19
From: G[...] M[...]
Subject: Re: FYI... jypsy & Michelle have been Banned from Aspergerson
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]

Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:26:21
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario, Michelle Dawson
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Aspergerson

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Aspergerson
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:13:58 -0500

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:47:05 -0400
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Aspergerson

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Aspergerson
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 16:50:19 -0500

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:19:19 -0400
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: Fwd: Unable to deliver your message

Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 19:34:42 -0400
To: aspergers.society@sympatico.ca
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: irony

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: irony
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:28:43 -0500

Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 22:20:31 +0000
From: magswon
Subject: [aspergerson] Recent Changes and Reasons Why
To: aspergerson@yahoogroups.com

Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:35:33 -0400
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: your note to the list

Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 09:53:56 -0400
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Unable to deliver your message

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Unable to deliver your message
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 15:25:17 -0500

Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 16:53:40 -0400
To: Aspergers Society of Ontario
From: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Unable to deliver your message

From: Aspergers Society of Ontario
To: jypsy [ janet norman-bain ]
Subject: RE: Unable to deliver your message
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 16:06:07 -0500

From: magswon aspergers.society@sympatico.ca
Date: Sun Nov 7, 2004 4:04 pm
Subject: Technical settings worked out